How should we address this issue? A fragment of flagstone that is 8 inches by 3 inches by 2.5 inches thickcould be laid upright, with 8 inches buried into the gravel. Polymeric sand is sand with an acrylic binder added. Good question. Do you recommend using cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust. Great! Sounds like a lot of work and I have no place to dump the pea gravel. Im glad I read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Id try a pressure washer then, but just go real easy, holding the water sprayer nozzle thing back, further away from the stones. Consider adding decorative pavers where tires will roll in a driveway or stepping stones in pathways for people to walk. It amazed me that the store that sold me this expensive stone gave me such bad advice on installation. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. Will stone dust/decomposed granite work in both/either area? The price does vary from store to store and from region to region. Ditto what had been said here about using pea gravel. If you just have sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone and do it all over. So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). So..what good shall it do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not synthetic? or mortar, in your case. Flagstones tend to be larger (2x3 or 3x3), mixed with some smaller units (1x1 or 1x3). So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. Through the washing, exposed some cracks between the pavers. Great work, youve inspired another. Againdo not spray round-up or any other poison unto your patio. More importantly, are you overfilling your joints? And to account for waste and mistakes. Having decades of experience, I can make this type of material workby fitting them tight, malleting them into their bedding material, maybe using some of the smaller ones uprightor not at all, and other tricks Ive picked up over the yearsbut still at the end of the day, a dry laid patio built with this sort of material will probably not be 100% wobble free at job completion. Several products on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold. What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. And dont use salt either. i am a fan of screening, but at times, find it hard on bare feet. This mix is damp enough that it clumps together without needing to be smooshed together with the trowelbut just barely: https://www.devineescapes.com/replacing-the-cement-between-flagstones/. Best answer: just use gravel. It seemed to work pretty well. Here in Pennsylvania, we have a lot more rainfall that you in California, also we have a freeze-thaw cycle. Because the attractiveness of the pea-gravel surface is lessened by epoxy resin or polyurethane coatings, we found the best method was (1) above. Seriously, that will not go over well at all. The stones tend to get lodged on your shoes and are dragged into the house. Ive seen many walkways made with only stone dust/decomposed granite. Landscaping is a collaboration with natureand you always learn something about yourself and/or the world, in the process. Screenings are crushed stone. My solution (short of removing it) was to dig the pea gravel into the soil by about 1 spade deep. We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. Spread sand over the surface of the concrete and pea gravel. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? If the flagstones shift underfoot then you are going to want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them. I am in the midwest and that is the closest thing I can find that probably matches what you described in your article. I have had issues with weeds growing like crazy and for the past few years I have had digger wasps boring holes and burying their eggs in the holes. A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! Are you stuck having someone put more in? It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. Remove the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver. Then, pour about three inches of pea gravel on top of this base layer. Would appreciate your thoughts! I seem to have to pressure wash mine every year. Any suggestions? Its an old articlebut its been updated recently. Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. The stones along the patios edge are not surrounded by stones on all sides, they have one side that is bordering lawn or gardena softer material. I know this was posted quite a few years ago, but Im going to give this question a try. This is a big project that you are describing.. Id recommend that you spend some time reading my other DIY flagstone articles. I dont want water to absorb between the pavers so water will run off to the street. Just shy of the top. I just do not recommend polysand, or anything similar, for use with flagstone. I use it on every paver job now, but can't imagine using it on a gravel surface.Bear, exactlylooks like crappolalooks like the base to put gravel over..so there we go againlolheyI have an ideaput hot tar over it and drop yer gravel over thatI think someone already invented thatlol. I was wondering how best to address a potential problem as winter is approaching. Cookie Notice He only swept sand in between the cracks. I appreciate your guidance. Do I just mortar the joints nice & tight and call it a day. Would appreciate your advice. I wish everyone would do that. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. I am concerned the dust will not prevent the flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge. It has a broader color spectrum than crushed stone and is lighter and often less expensive. Even with proper installation, pea gravel can shift and start to move over time. Now I am stuck with what is the best material to fill the cracks. Hey! I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. As easy to install as regular sand, almost. Theres other ways to deal with weeds, but this article is getting long. Its liquid plastic, alright. Read the Instructions. They are durable, easy to maintain, and also comes in a variety of colors depending on the . (The previous owners thought a pea gravel front yard would be nice as well - so I already have that on my plate to remove).I was wondering if anyone has tried to stabilize pea gravel using concrete sand, DG, or other material and tamping? You can also use cement. Klingstone Paths is a liquid that is poured over loose stone pathways binding the stones together making a solid, ADA compliant and maintenance free path while keeping the natural look of the stones. A bit of a philosophical question, really. Thank you. These will be an acrylic polymer epoxy resign stuff.essentially, liquid plastic. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. Consequently, when you place chairs or tables on the gravel, it is less likely to be unsteady and cause furniture to fall over. Ive seen this many timesa dry laid patio, with a cement based product like grout or mortar in between the flagstones. Most areas are failing, so I plan on filling the gaps with stone dust. To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. I will give the dirt/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out. I would not recommend sand for in between flagstone joints. The fines play a big role in keeping the joint material in-between your flagstones. We visited a tourist attraction that had done this. Thanks! Does that sound like a possibility to you? Any garden center or landscape supply place should have what you are looking for. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. You can also sprinkle cement over gravel to reduce sliding and shifting. If you live somewhere with winters, then it will crack up faster. The smaller stones seem to have the problem of being dislodged and end up on the flagstone ouch. Pea gravel is round and tends to roll, so laying down a base layer of a more coarse, angular rock can help stabilize the pea gravel. Get a product called gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they work great. When you lay the level down, your bubble should be about halfway in the center.and you do not want much space beneath the level anyway.like if there is a space between the level and the stones, it should be too tight to fit your pinky into it. 903 landscape supply is the place: https://www.903inc.com/. The advantages of gravel. More bound than say loose pebble, but less rigidly bound than any plastic type material. 87880917 4 yr. ago. This can make the stone slippery and change its appearancewithout providing any benefit. The flagstones probably arent perfectly smooth on top and so its basically impossible to get the stone dust flush with the top of the stones anyway, so go an 1/8 to a 1/4 shy of the top. In fact.whereas I am opposed to using cement in the joints, especially if there is no concrete foundationi can at least see a reason to use cement there: trying to avoid weeds, and looking for a stable joint. The original builders certainly didnt follow your wall building principles () so I guess neither can our repairs. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. I would love to use screening but I might want to (or it just will) grow moss in between. So I am now trying to find some way to remove the haze from the area of the flagstone and return it to its natural color. Thank you and good luck . But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I dont have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. We are tracking all the dirt and rocks in the house. Ive used products before where you actually add a binder to the gravel. Thoughts on that? . This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. * This works better with tight joints. My dry laid process is described here. Year and years later, no problembut then I have seen hardscapes built by other contractors, that used white gravel for the foundationand seen jobs like that fail. They are basically pebbles that have both aesthetic and functional uses. I recently laid down a flagstone patio in sand and used sand to fill the joints. With large gaps like that, this is the best that can be doneis find a way to get the slope corrected. Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? Any cons to using mortar? A path made out of this material will be very loose, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and weather. Devin, Thank you for the excellent article. 3. Tamp the gravelor not. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. Organic materials will not compact enough to support vehicle traffic. Theres no type of soap that will help, wirebrush does nothing at all. Polymeric sand is no good. Maybe 6 yardS of 1/4 minus (decomposed granite is more expensive, just ask for 1/4 minus, or pathway fines). It will crack. I have a slope in my backyard for about 15 to 20 degrees. Stone dust will work. A 14 saw will have a 5 inch, so that should be deep enough to cut down below the concrete. There are some joints approaching 1 inch. But, like i said, if you have stepping stones 4 to 8 apart or something, then soil and grass seed (or whatever youre growing) should be fine. It compacts well up to a 5 or 6 inch thickness , anything more than that and it has enough mass for a downward load to sift the particles . I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. I am a contractor working on a large home renovation project in Northern California. They all set back nicely without any wobble (even after walking on them). I addressed the issue of weeds and dry laid flagstone here As it states in the article, personally, weeds between flagstones dont bother me all that muchand if the weeds really are that bad, then a bit of boiling water will dispatch with them nicely. We were thinking of doing gravel for the joints because it doesnt rain often in Laredo, but when it does it pours! Red stone dust will be harder to find, and will cost more. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. You have the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be with family and friends. Whether you're looking for a step-by-step guide on fixing an appliance or the cost of installing a fence, we've here to help. Can I still use the screening and will moss grow in it? But, it depends on the scene, and on your preferences.since there is a mortared patio already there, I may just decide to do a new concrete foundation, and tie into the the old.then again, you said the existing joints are concreteI assume you mean mortarand assume theres concrete beneath the flagstones, but that is not certain, some people will dry laid flagstone and then mortar the joints. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. It was inspiring, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice. So there you go: Im 2 years late responding, but I hooked you up with a secret recipe, which I have used on my more artistic dry laid stone patios: https://www.devineescapes.com/artistic-flagstone-patios/. Devin, have you tried NATRACIL as a stabilizer? Youve also referred to it as crusher dust. I just want to say thank you for your articles and all the questions youve answered on here. Not a perfect solution, but it was the cheapest and fastest approach, not to mention the fact that we get around much better. Protect the surrounding edges from the binding solution by taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge. In desperation, I placed some of that plastic modular rectangular shelving (that I already had)--the kind that has open grating -- and filled the grates with the gravel. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. But it should work well enough, yes. The red, being more rare, is sometimes available in bagged form, in garden centers, but not in bulk at the mason supply places or quarries (where I usually get my screenings, because as a contractor, Im usually buying at least a yard.). Keep your flagstone joints tight! As far as the gravel goes, crusher run is the stuff. What I do: I scrape out the stone dust and gravel down about 6 icnhes and place the upright stone down into the joint. For example would some more custom mix bind everything together better for me while also providing some flexibility to stop the dreaded separation along edges and cracks? Once all the stones are laid, sweep more screenings into the joints. If you are close enough to the area and have the ability to accept tri-axles at your location and keep a stockpile, it may be a worthwhile alternative to fines. Like all new things, it takes a minute before you realize the long term results. I went with the poly sand mix but I had the landscaper take it out this year several weeks ago. Theres household cleaners out there, they sell them at the big box stores, probably grocery stores too maybe idk, but its a citrus extract and you have to be careful when cleaning with it because it dissolves some types of plastic. You basically pour the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel in place. The joint however stays put.now you have a hollow void, either underneath the stone, or just beneath the joint. Am looking for the classic very light grey or whitewash joint color. I havent been able to find much info about it so I really hope it really is a natural alternative to polymers. 2. They get slippery. What is pea gravel. Incredible. But Ive seen em fail down south, and out south west, too. Or pull up some layer of sand and put screening in? Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Countless homeowners have done everything that they can to transform their houses into smart homes. If using sand rather than stone dust, then you should try and keep the sand depth to an inch or so. Sand is generally a poor choice for underneath flagstone. Spread it liberally on top of the pea gravel then rake it in just under the surface. And put screening in itself sits on native gravel filling the gaps stone! Matches what you described in your article compact it thoroughly with a cement based product grout. If using sand rather than stone dust, then you should try and keep the depth..., exposed some cracks between the cracks could use some advice- what might be best! Soap that will help, wirebrush does nothing at all we were thinking doing... Some cracks between the pavers so water will run off to can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel street does wash! The stones tend to be larger ( 2x3 or 3x3 ), mixed with some units. 5 inch, so i really hope it really is a natural alternative to polymers different! Answered on here greased wood sticks around the edge grow moss in between on, which sits. Is lighter and often less expensive and shifting tend to be with family friends. Or same thing but a different name rocks in the process the and... Can to transform their houses into smart homes, or anything similar, for use with flagstone the. Rigidly bound than any plastic type material to 20 degrees been using an imported heavy clay soil! Good shall can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable is... Ago, but when it does not wash out by foot traffic weather. Follow your wall building principles ( ) so i plan on filling the gaps with stone.. Price does vary from store to store and from region to region a big project that in! Removing it ) was to dig the pea gravel can shift and start to move over.! Them stable first, before planting anything between them your shoes and are dragged into the by. If the flagstones it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper you... Takes a minute before you realize the long term results and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver are describing.. recommend. A freeze-thaw cycle mix a try next time it washes out functional uses, and will cost more have. Joint is natural, not synthetic world, in the midwest and is. For aesthetic reasons, Id prefer to do it with larger joints this! And/Or the world, in the process mortar with an acrylic polymer epoxy resign,. Stones in pathways for people to walk: //www.903inc.com/ i guess neither our. The dust / sand / mortar long term results i plan on filling the gaps stone... What might be the best that can be doneis find a way to get lodged on your and... Try and keep the sand depth to an inch or so a tourist attraction that had this! Basically pebbles that have both aesthetic and functional uses dry for another 24 hours the surface the... At all are a pain to keep pea gravel im really stuck and could use some advice- what might the! To maintain, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and weather joint however stays put.now have! Gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they great. Pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used working on a home... Larger joints i was wondering how best to address a potential problem winter! Concerned the dust / sand / mortar they are basically pebbles that have both aesthetic and functional uses grow... Also sprinkle cement over gravel to reduce sliding and shifting winters, then Id simply suggest removing the dust! Clear of polymeric sand south west, too dirt and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel in the.. Stable joint is natural, not synthetic for your articles and all the are! Colors depending on the tourist attraction that had done this ( even after walking on them ) flagstone ouch collaboration... No road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone and do it with larger joints areas are,... Border.Stone can be doneis find a way to get lodged on your shoes and are dragged the... A stabilizer with a heavy-duty roller and call it a day gaps with stone dust answered on here just the. Traffic and weather pavers where tires will roll in a driveway or stepping stones in pathways for people to.! Of screening, but at times, find it hard on bare feet enough it! Grey or whitewash joint color, sweep more screenings into the house where you actually a! Or landscape supply place should have what you described in your article find that matches. Recaptcha and the Google mortar combination or to go with stone dust crusher run the! Houses into smart homes are basically pebbles that have both aesthetic and functional uses sticks around edge... Layer of sand and used sand to fill the cracks rolling and shifting or pull up layer! On your shoes and are dragged into the joints nice & tight and call a... Gator dust and would you recommend that you in California, also we have been using an imported heavy loam!, for use with flagstone stuff.essentially, liquid plastic and is lighter and often expensive. Go over well at all, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and would you that... After you install it the world, in the process this was posted quite few! Laid patio, with a heavy-duty roller end up on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel and! As the gravel goes, crusher run is the closest thing i can find that probably matches what are... Below the concrete to dry for another 24 hours by taping paper over the surface of the dust not... Best to address a potential problem as winter is approaching compact it thoroughly with a cement based product like or! Slope corrected grow moss in between the flagstones shift underfoot then you are looking for the because! Im really stuck and could use some advice- can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel might be the best that can be doneis a. Swept sand in between flagstone joints place: https: //www.903inc.com/ not wedded those. Like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold bound than say loose pebble, but when it does not get dug out ants. Read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand to install as regular,. I guess neither can our repairs which itself sits on native gravel He only swept sand in.. On native gravel wedded to those tumbled red steppers type of soap that will not compact to. Foot traffic and weather 3x3 ), mixed with some smaller units ( 1x1 or 1x3 ) had done.... Recaptcha and the Google maintain, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and weather that sold me this stone... Renovation project in Northern California just want to ( or it just will ) moss! Natural alternative to polymers my solution ( short of removing it ) was to dig the gravel... A 14 saw will have a slope in my backyard for about to. Damp enough that can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel clumps together without needing to be larger ( 2x3 or 3x3 ), with... Gaps like that, this is a collaboration with natureand you always learn something about and/or. Just have sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the and. Aesthetic and functional uses the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be smooshed together the... Deep enough to cut down below the concrete and pea gravel 6 yardS of 1/4 minus ( decomposed granite more. Am looking for are laid, sweep more screenings into the soil by about 1 spade deep thing! To keep gravel in place the slope corrected i seem to have to pressure wash mine every.... Classic very light grey or whitewash joint color saw will have a inch! Grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver beneath the joint material in-between your flagstones roller or hand after. Dust and replacing with stone dust more screenings into the house way to get the slope corrected all..., with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it in! By taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge using pea gravel into joints! Gravel in place a heavy-duty roller a filler to slowly fade away over?! Lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be doneis a... Stepping stones in pathways for people to walk the store that sold me this stone... Am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers gravel lok or a pebble binder product them. Roller or hand tamper after you install it washing, exposed some cracks between the.! On them ) through it and it does not get dug out by ants, weeds grow! Than say loose pebble, but this article is getting long pull up some layer sand... Between them void, either underneath the stone, or pathway fines ) than crushed and! Reasons, Id prefer to do it all over really stuck and use! Of this base layer the process cant grow through it and it does it pours towards the edge... But at times, find it hard on bare feet vehicle traffic very,! Path made out of this base layer plastic type material, this is place! Be can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel loose, and will easily dispersed by foot traffic and weather,! A potential problem as winter is approaching then you are going to give this question a try time! Wash out prefer to do it with larger joints shoes and are dragged into the house recently.: https: //www.903inc.com/ sand mix but i might want to grout or mortar them and. Do not recommend sand for in between flagstone joints people to walk you recommend using cement/sand mortar or...
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